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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 411 for the fourth I've

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September 2016 Richard Saunders here

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with you from Sydney Australia and for

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those people who care it's a nice sort

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of pleasant day the sun is out it's a

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little bit warm but that's okay and lots

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of people out day in the city enjoying

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the warm weather coming up on this

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week's episode we chat to an old friend

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of a skeptic zone doctor Angie matki she

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is an emergency physician in the United

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States she sort of gets posted around

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and does night shifts around the place

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she is currently at dragoncon the

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wonderful dragoncon in a bland to

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georgia the place in 2008 where the

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skeptic zone was launched now luckily

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for us Angie gave a talk at DragonCon at

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the skeptic track hello to Derek Colin

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dunno who runs that and even luckier she

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had it live streamed her talk was all

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about alternative medicine and it was

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quite a tour de force really because she

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managed to cover and I made a list all

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sorts of things from vitalism to

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acupuncture to naturopathy to

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chiropractic in her talk and then had

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Q&A from the audience anyway we'll be

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catching up with Angie in just a moment

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as she dashes around dragoncon it's very

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late at night and she's going to fill us

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in on her talk and the goings on at this

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wonderful science fiction and fantasy

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convention but importantly for skeptics

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there is a strong skeptical what they

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call the skeptic track there and a

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science track and I think an astronomy

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track all sorts of good science

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happening in Atlanta Georgia following

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that Maynard spooky action once again

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back at the Australian Museum Maynard's

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going to be chatting to Rachel Robinson

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who was involved in demonstrating robots

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little sort of running around the floor

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type robot sort of like bb-8 from star

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wars that we came across as we were

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there to perform the mystery

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investigators show

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a fun little interesting interview all

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about robots following that is the raw

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skeptic report with Heidi Robinson

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heidi's going to be talking to michelle

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franklin from darwin skeptics who came

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down to visit Brisbane recently to visit

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the or attend and speak at the Brisbane

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skeptic app now she's going to be

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talking all about weeds weeds and

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finding natural remedies to

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environmental predators interesting

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science going on with Michelle Franklin

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and around off the showroom may not

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heads back to skeptics in the pub here

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in Sydney and ask the big question what

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do pub goers think quantum is what does

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quantum mean how can it be used what's

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the science behind it how is it misused

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or used in advertising do you know if I

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was to come to you on the street and say

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hello Richard Saunders here from

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skeptics and podcast what do you think

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quantum means you might be struggling

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for an answer lots of people think it

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means one thing especially the woo crowd

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especially those flogging pseudoscience

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love to use the word quantum anyway

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we're going to find out what people

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going to skeptics in the pub think and

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then may not we'll chat to Ian Bryce the

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chief investigator of Australian

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skeptics who was there to give a talk

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about what quantum is and quantum

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energies and all this sort of thing now

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just before we get stuck into this

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episode here this nice music coming up

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that's just delightful that is the theme

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to a new podcast I'd love to tell you

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about it's called the Blue Castle

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podcast and it's all about women in the

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inner west area of Sydney being

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interviewed about turning their artistic

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endeavors and their artistic skill into

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a business now you may not think that's

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a lot to do with skepticism well it

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hasn't but this podcast is produced by

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my sisters Elizabeth Saunders and

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Margaret Adam a very first podcast I'm

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very proud of them for putting this

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together I gave a little bit of help on

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the side but if you'd like to check it

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out just visit the Blue Castle dot lips

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in calm and i'll put a link in the show

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notes congratulations sisters Elizabeth

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and Margaret well done and I look

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forward to many more episodes it's a

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it's quite an interesting podcast it's

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all about women turning their artistic

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endeavors into a business well that's

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enough for me at the moment I'm going to

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run downstairs open the cupboard led to

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me see this week let me have a think ah

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crusty sourdough bread and I don't get

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any kickbacks from this the book street

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bakery and city they do make good

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sourdough bread just like the stuff you

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get in san francisco and i think i'll

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just have that lightly toasted and

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drizzle some honey on top nice and

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simple mmm YUM what will i do that i

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and joining me now on the line all the

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way from Atlanta Georgia where Dragon

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Con is underway as we speak it's an old

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friend of the skeptic zone dr. Angie

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mighty hello I'm Richard hi hi everybody

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you sound like you're having a great

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time and I know that you're still deeply

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entrenched right now in the festivities

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and the fun of dragoncon oh my goodness

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it's so much fun i really encourage

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anyone who can get to the states to come

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to dragoncon please please please come

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it is fantastic every possible

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permutation of pop culture science

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fiction fantasy everything you could

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possibly imagine is represented here it

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is so much fun it is and the skeptic

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zone actually was launched at dragoncon

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in 2008 the very first episode was

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launched from the skeptic track there

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and before we get on to what I'd like to

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talk to you about was your presentation

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about alternative medicine and so forth

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how is the skeptic track going this year

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it is going magnificently Richard we

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have had a very exciting set of

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presentations from New presenters we've

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had very good response from many

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different people it's much bigger it's

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taken over much more of the hotel than

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before and it's just been spectacular

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we've had the best time learned so much

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and can't wait for next year and I'm

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already only half way through this year

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so wow wow that's look I better start

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saving right now for 2017 I think well I

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noticed on the building it definitely

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better come I better there I noticed the

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skeptics guide to the universe were

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there they are they are here they're

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doing a special presentation tonight

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that's a paid service I'm not at that

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one not this time but tomorrow they'll

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be doing a live podcast

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I can't wait to see it it's so much fun

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to see them interact in person partly

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because you get to see their expansion

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expressions when someone says something

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flooding but also because you get to see

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the parts that get edited out which

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makes the podcast so much more fun yes

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I've been lucky enough to be a guest

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rogue from time to time and quite a lot

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gets chopped out look at it sounds like

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Dragon Con is every bit as wonderful as

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I remembered I haven't been there for

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some time I think 2010 was the last time

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I was there but what I wanted to have a

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little chat to you about was that you

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did a really a really good thing and I'm

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so pleased you did you gave a talk at

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DragonCon which is fantastic but you had

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somebody sitting in the audience live

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streaming your talk to Facebook which

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means it's captured there and it's up

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now for the world to see and are so

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impressed your talk was all about the

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different forms of alternative medicine

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and you squeezed so much into your talk

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so many modalities everything from I

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made a list vitalism humors energy

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medicine homeopathy chi acupuncture

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cupping applied kinesiology naturopathy

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Reiki chiropractic and you even

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mentioned a quote by carl sagan in there

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it was just incredible what I'd like to

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argue about the very one of the very

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first things you mentioned was vitalism

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can you tell me what exactly that means

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well um vitalism is sort of a belief

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that there is some magical quantity that

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separates us from nonliving things so

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there is some magical energy that imbues

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all of us that's sort of the idea behind

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that and it's not a unfortunately it

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actually means that people draw false

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conclusions when it comes to how to

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treat illnesses and what this actual

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source of illnesses are it was developed

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at a time before there was a true

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understanding of germ theory a very good

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understanding of biology physics

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chemistry and many other of the sciences

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that we find

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that we need now to practice good

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medicine and so a lot of these things

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that use the term energy are using it

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the term in an erroneous fashion so if

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you use the term energy and you can

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substitute the capacity to do work then

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the term energy actually makes sense but

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if you find that people are referring to

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energy and sort of this vague nebulous

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cloud sense then they don't really

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understand what the word means

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absolutely right and I think our friend

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Brian Dunning makes that point in his

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documentary here be dragons absolutely I

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stole it from him one hundred percent I

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loved his crazy his phrasing of it so

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much that I completely stole it from him

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and I did give him credit of the lecture

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now what else you were talking about

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talking about energy you were talking

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about various forms of energy medicine

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which sort of brings us on to homeopathy

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and what I loved about your talk about

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homeopathy is that it kept laughter from

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the audience which I think was just

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pretty apt well it is so laughable um

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it's sad to me that that the

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misunderstanding of this of this I can't

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even characterize it it's it's um I

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can't characterize it as anything other

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than magical thinking um because it

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relies on such unscientific statements

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and an understanding of how medicine

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actually works it completely violates

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physics it completely violates

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everything we know about organic

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chemistry about chemistry and there is

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no possible way to work yeah that

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something skeptics have been certainly

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saying for a very long time absolutely

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it was pleasing and I guess in a way to

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see or hear you're getting giggles and

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laughter from the audience let me talk

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let me take you now to something that it

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is a bit of a quandary and has been for

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many years why is acupuncture so

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accepted in our society is something

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that's real um that's a really good

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question I wish I knew the answer to

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that I think that part of it has to do

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with the appeal to this sort of ancient

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wisdom there is a sort of a trope in

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society where things that are ancient

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are necessarily better and unfortunately

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that means that things that were

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developed before and a good

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understanding of biology and chemistry

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and physics and all the things I just

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00:12:58,380 --> 00:12:54,060
mentioned they are venerated as as

274
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ancient wisdom when unfortunately it's

275
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:01,420
often magical thinking again yeah

276
00:13:04,290 --> 00:13:03,010
there's an old expression how can you

277
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tell ancient wisdom from ancient

278
00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:07,210
stupidity and quite like them hahaha

279
00:13:12,750 --> 00:13:10,750
that's a good friday so i like that you

280
00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:12,760
can use it using it use it in your next

281
00:13:17,790 --> 00:13:14,710
talk peace i'll totally steal that from

282
00:13:19,230 --> 00:13:17,800
you now it was a really good talk and

283
00:13:23,210 --> 00:13:19,240
i'm pleased that you put it put it up

284
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online and it was good too because I

285
00:13:27,930 --> 00:13:25,750
after the talk and which was recorded

286
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was a QA and you had various questions

287
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:29,800
from the audience and it was interesting

288
00:13:35,340 --> 00:13:32,050
that one of the the people who were was

289
00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:35,350
questioning you was speaking from what

290
00:13:41,010 --> 00:13:39,430
she considers to be her success in when

291
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:41,020
she had acupuncture done to herself so

292
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:42,370
she was coming from the point of view of

293
00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:45,970
oh it worked for me so how can you up

294
00:13:50,610 --> 00:13:48,310
there on the stage knock something when

295
00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:50,620
I know it worked for me but I think we

296
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:52,510
get that quite a lot don't we well we

297
00:13:59,220 --> 00:13:56,410
certainly do and what I started my talk

298
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with was a discussion of the natural

299
00:14:05,610 --> 00:14:01,890
disease process and that means that

300
00:14:07,890 --> 00:14:05,620
problems have waxing and waning course

301
00:14:09,780 --> 00:14:07,900
and many times when we use an

302
00:14:11,220 --> 00:14:09,790
intervention at when the pain is that

303
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:11,230
it's worse or when the problem is that

304
00:14:17,310 --> 00:14:14,320
it's worse and we see an improvement we

305
00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:17,320
falsely credit the intervention with the

306
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:19,270
improvement when we either would have

307
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:21,730
improved already anyway regardless of

308
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:23,770
the intervention it could be that the

309
00:14:26,820 --> 00:14:24,970
intervention did it or it could have

310
00:14:29,910 --> 00:14:26,830
been something that that happened even

311
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:29,920
days before you know you know any of the

312
00:14:34,140 --> 00:14:31,839
other treatments they had tried and so

313
00:14:35,699 --> 00:14:34,150
there is a natural course you know

314
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:35,709
people have good days and bad days and

315
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:36,320
if you interview

316
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:39,170
on a bad day that doesn't mean that the

317
00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:40,730
next good day was because of your

318
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:42,710
intervention and we lose sight of that

319
00:14:46,630 --> 00:14:44,510
because we just aren't programmed to

320
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:46,640
look for that unfortunately so keeping a

321
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:48,290
symptom diary is going to be critically

322
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:49,970
important to help tease out what was a

323
00:14:58,210 --> 00:14:55,730
true response from what was coincidence

324
00:15:00,370 --> 00:14:58,220
or our poor faulty memory because we do

325
00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:00,380
have bad memories about things we think

326
00:15:03,970 --> 00:15:01,760
that there was a relationship and there

327
00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:03,980
wasn't really so she kept saying I don't

328
00:15:07,150 --> 00:15:05,510
remember I don't remember and she

329
00:15:09,130 --> 00:15:07,160
doesn't remember and it's not that she's

330
00:15:11,140 --> 00:15:09,140
lying I don't believe that she's lying

331
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:11,150
at all I think she may be mistaken about

332
00:15:16,210 --> 00:15:14,240
the timing but if she had kept a symptom

333
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:16,220
diary it may have been that she noticed

334
00:15:20,890 --> 00:15:18,110
that there was some correlation that she

335
00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:20,900
hadn't noticed before your most probably

336
00:15:24,850 --> 00:15:22,310
right of course and when it comes a

337
00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:24,860
thing like something like acupuncture

338
00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:27,140
then we get to the reasoning so-called

339
00:15:32,290 --> 00:15:29,750
reasoning behind it and which revolves

340
00:15:34,660 --> 00:15:32,300
around these mystical energies and lines

341
00:15:36,550 --> 00:15:34,670
or channels in the body which simply

342
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:36,560
don't exist it's sort of it falls apart

343
00:15:43,180 --> 00:15:38,770
but yet people who have undergone it and

344
00:15:45,580 --> 00:15:43,190
consider it helped them are there almost

345
00:15:47,620 --> 00:15:45,590
in a different state of mind to the rest

346
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:47,630
of us I think but in a way it's

347
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:50,570
understandable I agree and there isn't

348
00:15:55,510 --> 00:15:53,210
any evidence for meridians and as a

349
00:15:57,940 --> 00:15:55,520
physician I would love to have different

350
00:16:00,610 --> 00:15:57,950
or additional treatment options for my

351
00:16:04,090 --> 00:16:00,620
patients but unfortunately using these

352
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:04,100
treatments may cause additional harm for

353
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:07,040
many reasons not the least of which that

354
00:16:10,450 --> 00:16:09,050
sticking needles in someone's body when

355
00:16:14,410 --> 00:16:10,460
they don't need to have needles there

356
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:14,420
can introduce all sorts of trouble you

357
00:16:17,710 --> 00:16:15,770
could collapse a lung you can cause

358
00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:17,720
bleeding you can cause infection it's

359
00:16:21,190 --> 00:16:19,910
you can cause heart infection it's it's

360
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:21,200
a terrible thing you don't want to

361
00:16:26,140 --> 00:16:22,810
introduce a needle and you don't have to

362
00:16:28,270 --> 00:16:26,150
like I couldn't agree more I think

363
00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:28,280
that's a good movie to have in life I

364
00:16:32,770 --> 00:16:31,190
think very well said we'll look Angie I

365
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:32,780
won't keep you any more i know that you

366
00:16:36,250 --> 00:16:34,490
sort of dash out of one room and you're

367
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:36,260
in another to give me a quick interview

368
00:16:41,740 --> 00:16:39,170
i wish i could be a dragon con i miss it

369
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:41,750
very much partly because of the fun and

370
00:16:46,630 --> 00:16:44,210
it's just wonderful silly fun with

371
00:16:49,260 --> 00:16:46,640
costumes and all sorts of characters and

372
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:49,270
stars from science fiction and fantasy

373
00:16:54,900 --> 00:16:52,570
it is also a wonderful outreach

374
00:16:57,330 --> 00:16:54,910
opportunity and please please give my

375
00:16:59,400 --> 00:16:57,340
best to Derek Colin dunno who once again

376
00:17:01,500 --> 00:16:59,410
is doing a fantastic job this year oh I

377
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:01,510
will let him know that you said so and

378
00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:03,250
we miss you desperately so please make

379
00:17:09,030 --> 00:17:06,910
arrangements to come in 2017 I do we

380
00:17:10,590 --> 00:17:09,040
need you to be here and continue the

381
00:17:13,260 --> 00:17:10,600
outreach it really is a wonderful

382
00:17:15,150 --> 00:17:13,270
opportunity I mean just because we have

383
00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:15,160
signs out where people who wouldn't

384
00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:17,470
ordinarily become involved with

385
00:17:22,290 --> 00:17:20,110
skepticism can see them that's how I

386
00:17:26,460 --> 00:17:22,300
became involved in skepticism is by

387
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:26,470
walking paths kept records the first

388
00:17:35,610 --> 00:17:30,000
time I met you and believe it or not I

389
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:35,620
from way back from either 2008 or 2009 I

390
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:38,170
have a photograph I took of the general

391
00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:40,330
audience and skip track and there you

392
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:45,340
are oh my goodness well we're not going

393
00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:52,470
but thank you so much for having me

394
00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:54,820
again and I can't wait to see y'all in

395
00:18:00,240 --> 00:17:57,760
Australia I'm coming to the Australian

396
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:00,250
skeptics with my daughter oh well I

397
00:18:04,020 --> 00:18:02,530
can't wait to come to Melbourne the

398
00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:04,030
convention coming up well that'll be a

399
00:18:07,770 --> 00:18:06,070
real treat but Angie look you better get

400
00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:07,780
back to the front of fun and festivities

401
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:10,000
and thank you for sparing some time to

402
00:18:28,090 --> 00:18:12,010
talk to the scare people thanks so much

403
00:18:33,890 --> 00:18:31,430
hi this is Carrie papi i am ross

404
00:18:37,250 --> 00:18:33,900
Fletcher okay Ross hey we're from a

405
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:37,260
podcast called oh no roster kerry we

406
00:18:40,820 --> 00:18:39,090
find out what happens when you show up

407
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:40,830
and ask questions we've hung out with

408
00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:43,170
the Cabalists the Mormons we've gone and

409
00:18:48,170 --> 00:18:45,750
gotten ear candle gone to the Sikhs we

410
00:18:49,790 --> 00:18:48,180
show up so you don't have to so find out

411
00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:49,800
where we're going next we'll even have

412
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:51,900
special episodes where we have famous

413
00:18:56,300 --> 00:18:54,330
guests like Brian Dalton from mr. deity

414
00:18:58,340 --> 00:18:56,310
you heard that awesome theme music he

415
00:19:02,690 --> 00:18:58,350
wrote that you should come visit us at

416
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:02,700
oh no podcast calm or facebook.com slash

417
00:19:09,410 --> 00:19:05,310
on rack what the hell's honor a cross Oh

418
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:09,420
in RAC Oh Oh No Ross and Carrie that's

419
00:19:23,030 --> 00:19:20,700
here's may not spooky action at the

420
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:23,040
distance

421
00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:26,250
oh look I've got some robots happening

422
00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:27,720
here these are freestanding sort of

423
00:19:33,050 --> 00:19:31,110
rolling block but steroid type Robox and

424
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:33,060
I know you're not from this company but

425
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:35,520
what are you doing here today I'm Rachel

426
00:19:40,190 --> 00:19:36,960
robertson from Sphero you've got a

427
00:19:42,290 --> 00:19:40,200
degree yes I have well I didn't ask that

428
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:42,300
an accusatory way yeah I was just asking

429
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:44,310
but not from this country oh really I

430
00:19:49,550 --> 00:19:46,050
got one from England can you tell the

431
00:19:51,230 --> 00:19:49,560
dodgy axon Oh Rab so I'm an English one

432
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:51,240
right so do you ever stay there as long

433
00:19:55,130 --> 00:19:53,910
to study or not although just come in

434
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:55,140
for the weekend they go I look you're

435
00:19:59,030 --> 00:19:57,090
good to go yeah but if this ride on it

436
00:20:00,410 --> 00:19:59,040
whatever you want to be virology Jill so

437
00:20:02,690 --> 00:20:00,420
what did you get it in by the way I did

438
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:02,700
I did what incomes and communications so

439
00:20:06,890 --> 00:20:04,890
not science I'm afraid to say but yeah

440
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:06,900
communications okay well I mean we need

441
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:08,490
science communicators and I guess that's

442
00:20:12,020 --> 00:20:09,840
a good degree to have that's what you're

443
00:20:13,130 --> 00:20:12,030
gonna do that's it we can join we can

444
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:13,140
join them together you need

445
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:16,170
communicators and scientists that unlike

446
00:20:19,490 --> 00:20:17,850
most public relations science is not a

447
00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:19,500
field words often a good idea to make

448
00:20:25,430 --> 00:20:22,860
stuff up in the entertainment field oh

449
00:20:28,130 --> 00:20:25,440
yeah that's a fence it's a massive

450
00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:28,140
advantage in our area well I did I work

451
00:20:33,710 --> 00:20:31,260
for spiro spero produce connected toys

452
00:20:38,780 --> 00:20:33,720
so and they're basically little robots

453
00:20:40,850 --> 00:20:38,790
in balls and cylinders and you can code

454
00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:40,860
and learn you can learn to code and

455
00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:43,830
program using these little balls so

456
00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:46,440
basically you can either drive them but

457
00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:47,940
then you can learn to code and program

458
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:49,980
them so they've got lots of sensors in

459
00:20:54,260 --> 00:20:52,410
them so they got temperature sensors and

460
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:54,270
collision sensors you can change the

461
00:20:59,240 --> 00:20:57,090
color and what sort of coding language

462
00:21:01,220 --> 00:20:59,250
do they use they use oval okay

463
00:21:02,420 --> 00:21:01,230
yeah and use that one it's pretty new

464
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:02,430
because it was actually created by

465
00:21:08,690 --> 00:21:05,370
sparrow so it was created by them in I

466
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:08,700
think 2012 and then they've used they've

467
00:21:12,740 --> 00:21:10,080
used that to develop all of that product

468
00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:12,750
and how complicated can the code go can

469
00:21:16,610 --> 00:21:14,520
you do really complicated things was it

470
00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:16,620
based for someone that start out with it

471
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:18,360
goes all the way through so right from

472
00:21:22,670 --> 00:21:20,130
the very beginning so you can do drag

473
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:22,680
and drop coding for little kids that are

474
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:24,510
just learning the basics right the way

475
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:26,310
through to actual full kind of hacking

476
00:21:29,420 --> 00:21:27,570
where you can actually hack into the

477
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,430
software and make it do different things

478
00:21:33,140 --> 00:21:31,440
and you can actually use the oval coated

479
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:33,150
what's the most complicated thing you've

480
00:21:37,910 --> 00:21:36,690
seen an oval code used for you'd have to

481
00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:37,920
I think you'd probably have to ask the

482
00:21:42,970 --> 00:21:39,900
guys in Boulder that alligator we've

483
00:21:45,860 --> 00:21:42,980
seen we've seen people do things like

484
00:21:48,110 --> 00:21:45,870
planetary so we see them code like full

485
00:21:50,930 --> 00:21:48,120
dance routines so they'll have a like a

486
00:21:52,220 --> 00:21:50,940
hundred different sphero's all operating

487
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:52,230
at the same time and then all

488
00:21:57,020 --> 00:21:54,720
synchronized to music and things like

489
00:22:00,590 --> 00:21:57,030
that we've seen people build the solar

490
00:22:02,210 --> 00:22:00,600
system using sphero's so they program

491
00:22:06,170 --> 00:22:02,220
them to go at the same at the right

492
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:06,180
speed around the Sun and so rather than

493
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:08,970
using a kind of boring styrofoam look

494
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:10,770
like they can actually show model of it

495
00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:13,290
so we used in lots of different ways

496
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:14,940
because as we're talking here the robots

497
00:22:17,540 --> 00:22:16,320
are running around our feet and all that

498
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:17,550
sort of thing what do the kids seem to

499
00:22:21,020 --> 00:22:18,960
be getting most excited about with these

500
00:22:22,670 --> 00:22:21,030
robots that that you know and they're

501
00:22:24,410 --> 00:22:22,680
using the Wi-Fi the bluetooth on the

502
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:24,420
phone to control its bluetooth so it's

503
00:22:28,220 --> 00:22:26,130
all Bluetooth connected so you just tap

504
00:22:29,420 --> 00:22:28,230
and connect and they're really excited I

505
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:29,430
think they're just really excited about

506
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:31,020
the fact that you can drive them and

507
00:22:34,340 --> 00:22:32,970
that they're little robots so we're

508
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:34,350
getting some kids that are actually

509
00:22:37,610 --> 00:22:35,610
learning to actually do the coding

510
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,620
aspect and then some that are just

511
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:39,360
really enjoying kind of controlling and

512
00:22:42,610 --> 00:22:40,850
changing the colors and

513
00:22:45,610 --> 00:22:42,620
how the robot move that were you know

514
00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:45,620
works inside so and of course how much

515
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:46,910
of these little robots they're quite an

516
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:49,370
expensive or not well so you've got all

517
00:22:53,050 --> 00:22:50,960
the way from their alley which is the

518
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:53,060
black still under one that tumbles so

519
00:22:58,810 --> 00:22:56,480
that one's 169 99 and then you go

520
00:23:00,670 --> 00:22:58,820
through to the BBA which is to 49 99

521
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:00,680
which is the Star Wars one but that's

522
00:23:05,530 --> 00:23:02,330
got lots of Star Wars stuff and it goes

523
00:23:06,970 --> 00:23:05,540
with kids how indestructible are there

524
00:23:08,170 --> 00:23:06,980
because kids like to put this sort of

525
00:23:09,670 --> 00:23:08,180
thing through a lot you know they like

526
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:09,680
to give to the dog and run around here

527
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:12,170
yeah it's a very good question and lots

528
00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:14,960
of testing has been done there really

529
00:23:17,860 --> 00:23:15,950
indestructible so you could actually

530
00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:17,870
stand your whole body weight on them and

531
00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:19,160
they would break they're made of

532
00:23:23,470 --> 00:23:21,350
polycarbonate and then they've put a UV

533
00:23:24,910 --> 00:23:23,480
coating around them so that they're

534
00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:24,920
really we've actually done tests where

535
00:23:28,210 --> 00:23:26,510
we've stood at the top of a building and

536
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:28,220
drop them from the top of a building and

537
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:29,810
they haven't broken the deliberate test

538
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:30,850
or someone just made a mistake

539
00:23:34,990 --> 00:23:33,110
something's true throughout the window

540
00:23:36,820 --> 00:23:35,000
Manolo yeah i'm looking at them on

541
00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:36,830
thinking is there an aqua version of

542
00:23:42,190 --> 00:23:40,070
these is it this spark the spark sorry

543
00:23:44,350 --> 00:23:42,200
is completely waterproof and actually

544
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:44,360
floats in water so you can drive it in

545
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:46,370
water so we've had kids that have

546
00:23:53,770 --> 00:23:51,370
created rafts using you know straws and

547
00:23:55,690 --> 00:23:53,780
bubble pop and things like that and then

548
00:23:58,300 --> 00:23:55,700
they create raft and then they motorized

549
00:23:59,560 --> 00:23:58,310
the raft using the spark okay and what

550
00:24:00,730 --> 00:23:59,570
would be the difference between coding

551
00:24:02,590 --> 00:24:00,740
this kind of thing in using something

552
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:02,600
like a raspberry pi kind of situation

553
00:24:06,580 --> 00:24:04,250
which is more open source yeah i think

554
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:06,590
that the nice thing about this this is a

555
00:24:11,470 --> 00:24:08,690
completely sort of shared platform and

556
00:24:14,260 --> 00:24:11,480
it's a really simple straightforward

557
00:24:16,810 --> 00:24:14,270
drag-and-drop I don't know that's

558
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:16,820
probably its advantages yeah sure well

559
00:24:19,390 --> 00:24:18,050
I'll leave utility because all these

560
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:19,400
kids are going to play and have a great

561
00:24:21,940 --> 00:24:20,720
afternoon what's been the reaction from

562
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:21,950
the kids they're pretty keen to get

563
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:23,330
their hands on this aren't they it's

564
00:24:26,500 --> 00:24:25,370
been absolutely overwhelming we were

565
00:24:28,990 --> 00:24:26,510
just saying we need to come back with

566
00:24:30,850 --> 00:24:29,000
more mMmmm so we've learnt that we need

567
00:24:32,770 --> 00:24:30,860
more to everybody's loved it is that

568
00:24:34,300 --> 00:24:32,780
like four or five and they're right I

569
00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:34,310
know and they've run out of it they've

570
00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:35,840
run out of seemed a bit so you know

571
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:36,860
we're going to come back with more but

572
00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:38,930
no amazing reactions so really

573
00:24:42,010 --> 00:24:40,400
overwhelming really I have a good time

574
00:24:55,690 --> 00:24:42,020
here this room is enjoy science week

575
00:25:00,440 --> 00:24:58,220
we've just opened the quad ecology

576
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:00,450
exhibition at Edinburgh Smew ziam of

577
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:04,050
childhood you can shrink in size see the

578
00:25:09,470 --> 00:25:06,450
amazing cylinders two squares illusion

579
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:09,480
live watch all your favorite college

580
00:25:16,970 --> 00:25:14,640
Eclipse create your own illusions be

581
00:25:19,820 --> 00:25:16,980
levitated by magician David Copperfield

582
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:19,830
and lots more we can take the exhibition

583
00:25:24,380 --> 00:25:22,230
anywhere so if you're a museum science

584
00:25:29,540 --> 00:25:24,390
center shopping mall or school get in

585
00:25:43,790 --> 00:25:29,550
touch for more information visit www.a

586
00:25:53,540 --> 00:25:43,800
um it's the raw skeptic report with

587
00:25:56,510 --> 00:25:53,550
Heidi Robinson I'm here with Michelle

588
00:25:59,870 --> 00:25:56,520
Franklin who has been on the skeptic

589
00:26:01,520 --> 00:25:59,880
zone previously in case listeners don't

590
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:01,530
remember you who are you and why you

591
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:04,410
here at skeptic at I'm Michelle Franklin

592
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:06,210
I'm here because they didn't tell me I

593
00:26:11,540 --> 00:26:08,970
couldn't be so i came i live in darwin

594
00:26:13,910 --> 00:26:11,550
and one of the two regular members of

595
00:26:15,380 --> 00:26:13,920
the darwin skeptics and i've come down

596
00:26:17,870 --> 00:26:15,390
to visit family and hang out with

597
00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:17,880
skeptics and you just gave a very

598
00:26:23,210 --> 00:26:20,220
interesting talk on your area of

599
00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:23,220
expertise which is biocontrol you're

600
00:26:29,180 --> 00:26:25,440
telling me before that the your actual

601
00:26:32,650 --> 00:26:29,190
job title is weed scientists I just love

602
00:26:35,030 --> 00:26:32,660
that weed scientist it's fabulous so

603
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:35,040
tell us what what's involved in your

604
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:37,110
day-to-day work up in the Northern

605
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:40,530
Territory I can be anything from sitting

606
00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:42,960
at a computer running risk assessments

607
00:26:47,780 --> 00:26:45,600
on potential new weeds trolling the

608
00:26:51,290 --> 00:26:47,790
internet for information and reading

609
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:51,300
papers to the next day driving out to

610
00:26:55,820 --> 00:26:53,730
remote Billabong's and dropping weevils

611
00:26:57,470 --> 00:26:55,830
in the water and counting caterpillars

612
00:26:59,360 --> 00:26:57,480
that fall out of trees I've actually

613
00:27:01,160 --> 00:26:59,370
spent quite a lot of time just bashing

614
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:01,170
trees with big sticks and counting what

615
00:27:06,890 --> 00:27:05,250
falls out of them that sounds like a

616
00:27:09,140 --> 00:27:06,900
diverse kind of

617
00:27:11,180 --> 00:27:09,150
and you're also saying that a lot of

618
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:11,190
your job is knowing how to not get

619
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:12,930
yourself bogged and if you do get bogged

620
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:14,610
knowing how to get out of it yeah

621
00:27:19,460 --> 00:27:16,410
there's a few of our locations are a

622
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:19,470
little bit remote so some of them

623
00:27:25,820 --> 00:27:22,880
involve a few tricks to get to them

624
00:27:27,770 --> 00:27:25,830
there's also quite a few animals that

625
00:27:29,780 --> 00:27:27,780
will eat you on routes so so a big part

626
00:27:33,530 --> 00:27:29,790
of it is learning how not to be eaten in

627
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:33,540
your general workday yes that would be a

628
00:27:39,410 --> 00:27:36,900
good skill to have now tell us when when

629
00:27:41,930 --> 00:27:39,420
does a weed become a weed when is a weed

630
00:27:45,470 --> 00:27:41,940
classified as a weed and for what reason

631
00:27:48,590 --> 00:27:45,480
so a weed is basically a plant in the

632
00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:48,600
wrong place that is causing a problem so

633
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:51,390
if there's an exotic plant brought into

634
00:27:54,590 --> 00:27:53,370
Australia plant it in a garden and it

635
00:27:56,750 --> 00:27:54,600
looks pretty and doesn't hurt anybody

636
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:56,760
that's just an introduced plant where it

637
00:28:01,490 --> 00:27:58,770
becomes a weed is if it causes problems

638
00:28:05,210 --> 00:28:01,500
so the ones that become problems are the

639
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:05,220
ones that that breed fast the ones that

640
00:28:09,290 --> 00:28:07,320
invade the ones that spread or the ones

641
00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:09,300
that are just difficult to kill so if

642
00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:11,820
they spread fast and are difficult to

643
00:28:17,210 --> 00:28:14,520
get rid of we classify them as weeds and

644
00:28:18,890 --> 00:28:17,220
we set up you know laws that they have

645
00:28:21,290 --> 00:28:18,900
to be controlled and we work on

646
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,300
different ways to control them okay and

647
00:28:26,420 --> 00:28:23,520
in your talk you you talked specifically

648
00:28:29,210 --> 00:28:26,430
about a weed is this the right

649
00:28:31,820 --> 00:28:29,220
pronunciation salvinia so tell us about

650
00:28:33,710 --> 00:28:31,830
your work with salvinia so it's a water

651
00:28:36,140 --> 00:28:33,720
weeds so it grows on the surface of

652
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:36,150
billabong's it's been managed through

653
00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:38,610
biocontrol for about 30 years now and

654
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:40,860
there's a bit of a delicate balance

655
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:43,440
between the number of salvinia plants

656
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:45,330
and the number of weevils and if you get

657
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:47,760
too many weevils the salvinia dies off

658
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:49,290
and then the weevils die off because

659
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:50,610
they can't live without the cell veneer

660
00:28:54,260 --> 00:28:52,290
so there's there's been a long-term

661
00:28:56,570 --> 00:28:54,270
effort by the Rangers who manage the

662
00:28:59,450 --> 00:28:56,580
Billabong's to reintroduce the weevils

663
00:29:01,160 --> 00:28:59,460
when they disappear and to just keep an

664
00:29:03,020 --> 00:29:01,170
eye on the sylvania levels and make sure

665
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:03,030
that it's being kept in check by these

666
00:29:07,670 --> 00:29:05,690
weevils so the weevils are the

667
00:29:09,980 --> 00:29:07,680
biocontrol that you're working on at the

668
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:09,990
moment a lot of your talk was focusing

669
00:29:14,570 --> 00:29:12,000
on the fear that the general public has

670
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:14,580
around bio control measures can you tell

671
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:16,770
us a bit more about that so basically

672
00:29:20,910 --> 00:29:19,130
the fear comes from people not knowing

673
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:20,920
what biocontrol

674
00:29:24,270 --> 00:29:22,810
is and the immediate response when you

675
00:29:27,090 --> 00:29:24,280
hear biocontrol is to think of cane

676
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:27,100
toads and assume that scientists are

677
00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:28,930
going to introduce something bad and

678
00:29:34,050 --> 00:29:31,630
it's going to destroy the world so most

679
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:34,060
of our publicity is damage control

680
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:36,130
explain to people that we're not going

681
00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:38,230
to ruin everything by introducing this

682
00:29:42,210 --> 00:29:40,060
weevil and that we have actually done

683
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:42,220
the research and it's a safe weevil to

684
00:29:48,690 --> 00:29:44,530
introduce what are some of the

685
00:29:50,610 --> 00:29:48,700
considerations by you and other people

686
00:29:53,790 --> 00:29:50,620
in the field when you are looking at

687
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:53,800
introducing a form of biocontrol so

688
00:29:59,100 --> 00:29:55,930
there's two basic tests that you need to

689
00:30:02,160 --> 00:29:59,110
run the first one is finding out whether

690
00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:02,170
there the agent is dependent on its host

691
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:04,900
so you you put it in a cage with that

692
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:10,000
host and see if it can reproduce do a

693
00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:11,650
full life cycle on it and then you put

694
00:30:15,870 --> 00:30:13,510
it in a cage with other plants that are

695
00:30:18,030 --> 00:30:15,880
similar to that host and see if it dies

696
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:18,040
on those plants and basically if there's

697
00:30:23,130 --> 00:30:20,290
anything else in Australia that can host

698
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:23,140
this species then it can't be used

699
00:30:27,630 --> 00:30:25,210
because it's capable of surviving

700
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:27,640
without the weed and then the second

701
00:30:31,230 --> 00:30:28,930
thing that you want to test is the

702
00:30:33,660 --> 00:30:31,240
effect that it might have if it's

703
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:33,670
already surviving on one host can it

704
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:35,410
also impact on other things so you'll

705
00:30:40,350 --> 00:30:37,360
put it in a cage with two different

706
00:30:42,750 --> 00:30:40,360
species and see if it will move over and

707
00:30:44,970 --> 00:30:42,760
harm other things so there's a lot of

708
00:30:47,790 --> 00:30:44,980
preparation that goes into these things

709
00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:47,800
before something is just released out

710
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:50,110
into the wild so to speak yeah there's

711
00:30:54,540 --> 00:30:52,240
many years oh that's all done here in

712
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:54,550
Brisbane just down the road at the eco

713
00:30:57,690 --> 00:30:55,930
Sciences precinct they've got a big

714
00:31:00,960 --> 00:30:57,700
biocontrol facility there where the

715
00:31:03,420 --> 00:31:00,970
CSIRO does most of that work and they

716
00:31:06,030 --> 00:31:03,430
spend years researching each potential

717
00:31:07,980 --> 00:31:06,040
agent before it's given the go-ahead to

718
00:31:11,130 --> 00:31:07,990
be released and then they send it up to

719
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:11,140
us and we start distributing and you

720
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:13,600
were saying that a lot was learned by

721
00:31:19,770 --> 00:31:17,200
the whole cane toad experience and that

722
00:31:22,770 --> 00:31:19,780
that people really shouldn't have have

723
00:31:25,650 --> 00:31:22,780
the fear based on that cane toad

724
00:31:27,330 --> 00:31:25,660
experience yeah so the the fear comes

725
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:27,340
from the fact that we haven't spoken

726
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:29,650
enough about biocontrol and it's

727
00:31:33,950 --> 00:31:32,110
basically that the flagship species that

728
00:31:35,899 --> 00:31:33,960
everybody goes to when

729
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:35,909
I control you think cane toad if you're

730
00:31:39,710 --> 00:31:37,440
lucky maybe you'll think about rabbits

731
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:39,720
and cactuses but that's pretty much all

732
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:42,000
that people know about and I mean I'm

733
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:43,200
working on about seven or eight

734
00:31:47,450 --> 00:31:44,610
different species right now and I've

735
00:31:51,139 --> 00:31:47,460
only been doing this for a year and it's

736
00:31:52,610 --> 00:31:51,149
been going for decades and there's every

737
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:52,620
couple of years and new species is

738
00:31:56,779 --> 00:31:55,110
introduced and some of them fail which

739
00:31:59,090 --> 00:31:56,789
means that they just die off and nothing

740
00:32:01,519 --> 00:31:59,100
happens and some of them succeed and are

741
00:32:03,620 --> 00:32:01,529
being used like the the weevil in the

742
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:03,630
sylvania is being used successfully for

743
00:32:08,539 --> 00:32:05,760
the last 30 years and I didn't know

744
00:32:11,090 --> 00:32:08,549
about it until I started this job so we

745
00:32:13,130 --> 00:32:11,100
need to discuss these things publicly

746
00:32:15,049 --> 00:32:13,140
and make it known that biocontrol is is

747
00:32:18,620 --> 00:32:15,059
a common thing that we do and we do it

748
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:18,630
safely and what were you saying regards

749
00:32:25,970 --> 00:32:22,799
the failure of a biocontrol that the

750
00:32:27,710 --> 00:32:25,980
definition you now use as a failure so a

751
00:32:29,060 --> 00:32:27,720
good example of a failure is a

752
00:32:30,830 --> 00:32:29,070
particular little beetle that was

753
00:32:33,980 --> 00:32:30,840
released a few years ago to control

754
00:32:36,740 --> 00:32:33,990
bellyache bush they did all the research

755
00:32:38,419 --> 00:32:36,750
the the beetle did everything we needed

756
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:38,429
it to do it would greed on the bellyache

757
00:32:42,049 --> 00:32:39,929
couldn't survive on anything

758
00:32:43,310 --> 00:32:42,059
else it didn't impact anything else we

759
00:32:44,779 --> 00:32:43,320
took the beetle out into the wild

760
00:32:46,399 --> 00:32:44,789
released it every beetle flew in a

761
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:46,409
different direction and they never bred

762
00:32:50,899 --> 00:32:48,690
in the wild so that's what a biocontrol

763
00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:50,909
failure is and there's just no chance of

764
00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:52,380
it breeding on anything else because all

765
00:32:57,260 --> 00:32:54,840
of those safety protocols were were kept

766
00:33:00,010 --> 00:32:57,270
in check at the beginning to make sure

767
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:00,020
that there was no risk so there were no

768
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:03,210
negative impacts it was a failure but

769
00:33:07,159 --> 00:33:05,370
with no negative impacts yeah so the

770
00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:07,169
only negative outcome there is the

771
00:33:11,210 --> 00:33:09,720
wasted time so that's that's the only

772
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:11,220
drawback is that you've put some

773
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:13,049
resources into something that didn't

774
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:15,450
work and finally and this was an

775
00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:19,080
audience question as well will we ever

776
00:33:24,940 --> 00:33:22,140
get rid of the cane toad never going to

777
00:33:29,510 --> 00:33:24,950
happen it's just not not feasible

778
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:29,520
there's no biocontrol that will ever

779
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:31,679
wipe anything out so it's possible that

780
00:33:35,930 --> 00:33:33,090
something will come along in the future

781
00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:35,940
that will drastically reduce numbers but

782
00:33:40,909 --> 00:33:37,950
it won't wipe them out it'll just reduce

783
00:33:44,060 --> 00:33:40,919
numbers they're just way too successful

784
00:33:46,159 --> 00:33:44,070
to feasibly think about eradication so

785
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:46,169
what we need to look at with the cane

786
00:33:49,970 --> 00:33:47,490
toad is

787
00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:49,980
are there any specific impacts that we

788
00:33:54,260 --> 00:33:51,710
can mitigate so is there a particular

789
00:33:57,020 --> 00:33:54,270
area we can protect we can actually

790
00:33:58,460 --> 00:33:57,030
remove tadpoles from one pound or remove

791
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:58,470
adults from one area and protect

792
00:34:03,290 --> 00:34:00,960
specific areas and we can manage them

793
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:03,300
and keep their numbers low maybe in the

794
00:34:06,980 --> 00:34:04,890
future we will get some wonderful

795
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:06,990
biocontrol that will seriously reduce

796
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:09,330
their numbers but it's not it's not

797
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:12,530
feasible to think about eradicating them

798
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,210
okay well thank you Michelle it was a

799
00:34:20,359 --> 00:34:17,760
very interesting talk and if people want

800
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:20,369
to get in touch with you or see more of

801
00:34:25,310 --> 00:34:21,570
what you're doing where can they find

802
00:34:26,419 --> 00:34:25,320
you Darwin skeptics why my little plug

803
00:34:28,399 --> 00:34:26,429
that I like to put at the end of

804
00:34:30,619 --> 00:34:28,409
everything we have a Facebook group it's

805
00:34:33,350 --> 00:34:30,629
just the Darwin skeptics and in the

806
00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:33,360
facebook group sections join we take

807
00:34:36,919 --> 00:34:35,369
anybody as long as you're nice to us and

808
00:34:39,619 --> 00:34:36,929
we take the ones who I mean to us as

809
00:34:41,090 --> 00:34:39,629
well join in the conversation and say

810
00:34:43,790 --> 00:34:41,100
hello we also have an email address

811
00:34:46,220 --> 00:34:43,800
which is just darling skeptics at gmail

812
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:46,230
com but you're nobody uses email anymore

813
00:34:52,220 --> 00:34:49,679
Facebook's the way that we interact so

814
00:34:54,050 --> 00:34:52,230
if you've got any questions about bio

815
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:54,060
control measures you know where to get

816
00:34:58,849 --> 00:34:56,879
in touch with Michelle thank you we've

817
00:35:15,450 --> 00:34:58,859
got better go back in and hear the rest

818
00:35:19,660 --> 00:35:18,010
the Australian skeptics national

819
00:35:23,010 --> 00:35:19,670
convention will be held in melbourne

820
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:23,020
from the 25th to the 27th of november

821
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:27,410
2016 speakers will include Lawrence

822
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:30,650
Krauss and sod Ernst Harriet hall

823
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:34,130
Michael Marshall Mel Thompson Lynn Kelly

824
00:35:40,690 --> 00:35:37,370
ken harvey Lara wood and Deanne Carson

825
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:40,700
Joe alabaster peterb outage Ross mulch

826
00:35:46,990 --> 00:35:44,180
Emma Miley mouth Vickers and more to be

827
00:35:50,590 --> 00:35:47,000
announced be theme of this year's

828
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:50,600
conferences good thinking for more

829
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:52,400
information and to get your tickets and

830
00:36:22,270 --> 00:35:55,850
tickets for the annual dinner visit www

831
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:22,280
convention skeptics calm got a you let's

832
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:24,320
take you into a journey into these small

833
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:27,290
the very small the smallest realms of

834
00:36:31,540 --> 00:36:29,450
the imagination where things don't

835
00:36:33,730 --> 00:36:31,550
happen as they seemingly logically

836
00:36:35,380 --> 00:36:33,740
should that's right we're investigating

837
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:35,390
the quantum world here at skeptics in

838
00:36:38,410 --> 00:36:36,890
the pub where things get smaller and

839
00:36:40,090 --> 00:36:38,420
smaller and smaller as the night gets

840
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:40,100
longer and longer or longer and someone

841
00:36:43,690 --> 00:36:41,210
is getting taller and taller and taller

842
00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:43,700
is Richard Saunders I'm glad to hear

843
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:45,880
that what about this expression we hear

844
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:48,890
quantum leap is used all the time when

845
00:36:52,570 --> 00:36:51,170
people say so-and-so has made a quantum

846
00:36:54,070 --> 00:36:52,580
leap or this company's about to make a

847
00:36:56,170 --> 00:36:54,080
quantum leap all scientists have made a

848
00:36:59,980 --> 00:36:56,180
quantum leap and what they mean of

849
00:37:02,080 --> 00:36:59,990
course is a gigantic stride forward but

850
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:02,090
the nitpickers will say well wait a

851
00:37:06,570 --> 00:37:04,370
minute quantum's tiny well i thought

852
00:37:09,550 --> 00:37:06,580
though quantum leap would mean an

853
00:37:11,980 --> 00:37:09,560
unexpectedly so it might have gone in a

854
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:11,990
direction that wasn't expected and gone

855
00:37:15,740 --> 00:37:14,490
dead that way you see I haven't I

856
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:15,750
never heard it used like that people

857
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:18,510
it's always used in press releases or

858
00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:22,490
something like that mean to me a huge

859
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:25,110
leap and then the nitpickers say well

860
00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:27,150
now it's very tiny but I think in in

861
00:37:32,450 --> 00:37:29,460
common usage when people say a quantum

862
00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:32,460
leap everybody knows what they mean hmm

863
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:33,960
yeah think about the guy who went on to

864
00:37:38,750 --> 00:37:36,000
play the captain and enterprise that's

865
00:37:41,540 --> 00:37:38,760
right Scott Bakula he made a few quantum

866
00:37:43,010 --> 00:37:41,550
leaps hmm I'm look and I still was not

867
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:43,020
happy with the final episode of quantum

868
00:37:47,810 --> 00:37:44,490
leap I was not happy with the way

869
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:47,820
they're finished I know right mmm look

870
00:37:51,050 --> 00:37:49,290
I'm people out there you know you know

871
00:37:52,370 --> 00:37:51,060
if you don't you don't yeah if you don't

872
00:37:54,290 --> 00:37:52,380
if you happen if you haven't seen

873
00:37:56,359 --> 00:37:54,300
quantum leap the whole series it's quite

874
00:38:01,130 --> 00:37:56,369
fun we enjoyed it but the last episode

875
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:01,140
was sort of like what well it was sort

876
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:04,290
of a bit like blank 7 you know yeah but

877
00:38:08,090 --> 00:38:05,730
we're here because sir there's going to

878
00:38:11,060 --> 00:38:08,100
be some chatting about quantum in all

879
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:11,070
aspects from Ian Bryce our guy who is

880
00:38:15,050 --> 00:38:13,680
our resident rocket scientist yeah the

881
00:38:16,430 --> 00:38:15,060
chief investigator of Australian

882
00:38:17,660 --> 00:38:16,440
skeptics he'll be here soon he's giving

883
00:38:21,020 --> 00:38:17,670
a talk tonight here at skeptics in the

884
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:21,030
pub about quantum energies and what is

885
00:38:26,330 --> 00:38:23,130
quantum and things like that which I'll

886
00:38:28,370 --> 00:38:26,340
enjoy listening to nux some years ago in

887
00:38:31,490 --> 00:38:28,380
fact I was doing some research for dr. H

888
00:38:33,890 --> 00:38:31,500
II a story dr. H he was following up and

889
00:38:36,530 --> 00:38:33,900
she wanted to know all about quantum and

890
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:36,540
I remembers cramming one afternoon to

891
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:38,130
training to try to find out as much

892
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:40,770
about quantum on what it means as I as I

893
00:38:44,810 --> 00:38:43,050
could I don't think he can learn much in

894
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:44,820
one afternoon but that's the question

895
00:38:49,099 --> 00:38:47,010
we're going to be posing tonight what do

896
00:38:50,450 --> 00:38:49,109
people think quantum is because you hit

897
00:38:51,859 --> 00:38:50,460
being used in all sorts of things of

898
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:51,869
course you will often hear it used as

899
00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:54,240
part of advertising for something I

900
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:56,310
think I think even won the race is now

901
00:39:00,560 --> 00:38:58,320
is a quantum razor would you really

902
00:39:01,970 --> 00:39:00,570
thought what so when you shave it shaves

903
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:01,980
your face and maybe other parts of your

904
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,000
body unexpectedly it's it shaves you

905
00:39:11,859 --> 00:39:08,400
over your face and your counterparts

906
00:39:15,380 --> 00:39:11,869
face another universe at the same time

907
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:15,390
now that I would pay money for that so

908
00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:18,330
if you wake up clean shaven it means you

909
00:39:22,370 --> 00:39:19,950
in another universe has got their very

910
00:39:24,530 --> 00:39:22,380
own quantum razor and we must remind

911
00:39:27,470 --> 00:39:24,540
people that that's where a part of the

912
00:39:29,450 --> 00:39:27,480
quantum action is watch Einstein

913
00:39:31,370 --> 00:39:29,460
called spooky action at a distance yes

914
00:39:35,210 --> 00:39:31,380
now you and I came up with that name

915
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:35,220
years ago at over lunch and a pub oh I

916
00:39:37,790 --> 00:39:36,330
just heard it in something and I knew

917
00:39:39,890 --> 00:39:37,800
nothing about it i thought that sounds

918
00:39:41,330 --> 00:39:39,900
good Maynard's spooky action at a

919
00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:41,340
distance that's where we came up with

920
00:39:46,490 --> 00:39:44,910
him we were having lunch with Stephen

921
00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:46,500
Casey the wonder dog oh that's much

922
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:47,790
Stephen Casey lund dog and we came up

923
00:39:50,870 --> 00:39:49,290
with that but we actually gonna be

924
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:50,880
asking a few people what they think when

925
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:52,410
they hear it tonight and in fact perhaps

926
00:39:55,340 --> 00:39:54,090
even when I talk to Ian Bryce he will

927
00:39:58,010 --> 00:39:55,350
actually explain it to the satisfaction

928
00:40:00,109 --> 00:39:58,020
of the listener well he should and if

929
00:40:01,430 --> 00:40:00,119
you folks if you don't come or you

930
00:40:03,170 --> 00:40:01,440
haven't been to a skeptics in the pub

931
00:40:04,849 --> 00:40:03,180
this is that it was just the place you

932
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:04,859
can ask these sort of questions now it's

933
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:08,160
it's a early yet people are self just

934
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:09,690
making their way into the room we have

935
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,210
here and the crown hotel in Sydney and

936
00:40:16,250 --> 00:40:14,640
the tables are ready but we might be

937
00:40:20,380 --> 00:40:16,260
able to ask some people before the talk

938
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:20,390
what they think quantum means and maybe

939
00:40:26,690 --> 00:40:24,810
we can shed some light on this and I

940
00:40:28,670 --> 00:40:26,700
know Annie and Bryce hook gets here

941
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:28,680
he'll be after tell us something and a

942
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:30,510
reminder that next skeptic in the pub

943
00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:32,400
there's going to be a live performance

944
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:35,280
we're going to do this show live yeah

945
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:36,960
the skeptics own life that'll be the

946
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:40,530
first thursday of october october the

947
00:40:44,090 --> 00:40:42,000
sixth here in sydney there'll be a

948
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:44,100
skeptics in life it won't be as big a do

949
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:45,570
as last year because last year we had

950
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:48,690
the whole team and this year no women

951
00:40:51,830 --> 00:40:50,400
are turning up none of the female

952
00:40:53,359 --> 00:40:51,840
members of the cast are turning out

953
00:40:56,420 --> 00:40:53,369
we've asked them all and there are they

954
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,430
interstate or indisposed yes sadly it

955
00:40:59,930 --> 00:40:58,560
looks like that because we've got most

956
00:41:03,410 --> 00:40:59,940
of the people who work on the show in

957
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:03,420
fact women as it happens but I think

958
00:41:09,370 --> 00:41:06,330
just by bad circumstance and luck and

959
00:41:11,540 --> 00:41:09,380
things they they will be indisposed or

960
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:11,550
overseas or something crazy like that

961
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:13,170
boo so we've still got a month maybe we

962
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:15,690
could we can we can do something but no

963
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:17,850
they'll be alive skeptic zone I you and

964
00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:19,530
I and I hope Stefan and Iran will be

965
00:41:25,460 --> 00:41:23,190
here will read our pieces but we'll have

966
00:41:27,170 --> 00:41:25,470
not phone in what are they call the pre

967
00:41:29,210 --> 00:41:27,180
records from some some of our other

968
00:41:30,589 --> 00:41:29,220
reporters 0 yeah right now let's see

969
00:41:33,290 --> 00:41:30,599
what's happening tonight it's skeptics

970
00:41:34,910 --> 00:41:33,300
in the pub but a lot some people that

971
00:41:36,380 --> 00:41:34,920
have turned up here fairly early here in

972
00:41:38,930 --> 00:41:36,390
fact she started answering the question

973
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:38,940
before I variants asked it when you hear

974
00:41:42,349 --> 00:41:40,319
the word quantum what do you mean when

975
00:41:43,970 --> 00:41:42,359
you might hear it in some advertising or

976
00:41:47,059 --> 00:41:43,980
even when it's used generally what do

977
00:41:49,849 --> 00:41:47,069
you think it's assumed to mean something

978
00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:49,859
you really don't understand that's a

979
00:41:53,900 --> 00:41:52,710
very concise and to the point answer how

980
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:53,910
do you think it's normally used in

981
00:41:58,599 --> 00:41:55,920
normal conversation or in advertising I

982
00:42:01,579 --> 00:41:58,609
would use it as meaning the total of

983
00:42:02,990 --> 00:42:01,589
okay so would use that in a sentence for

984
00:42:08,420 --> 00:42:03,000
the listener to explain to the listener

985
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:08,430
as in 02 quite the quantum of the number

986
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:10,319
of cars on the road might be or the

987
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:13,410
total of the number of cars and and that

988
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:14,940
is grammatically accurate isn't it

989
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:21,690
mm-hmm it is yes I think just in time

990
00:42:24,859 --> 00:42:23,280
you but I'm just a man with a beer in

991
00:42:26,599 --> 00:42:24,869
his hand always turns up a skeptics in

992
00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:26,609
the pub it's always a good thing for the

993
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,260
skeptics out and run with Israel it is

994
00:42:31,370 --> 00:42:30,240
bro at all is about priorities you never

995
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:31,380
know if you don't know what's going on

996
00:42:35,180 --> 00:42:33,599
have a drink now we're asking tonight

997
00:42:36,349 --> 00:42:35,190
when you hear the word quantum which

998
00:42:38,359 --> 00:42:36,359
we're going to be having a chat about

999
00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:38,369
later here it's used in so many ways and

1000
00:42:42,410 --> 00:42:40,230
advertising people kind of sling it

1001
00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:42,420
around like any old word what does it

1002
00:42:44,809 --> 00:42:43,740
mean to you in you or what do you think

1003
00:42:49,849 --> 00:42:44,819
they're trying to get across when they

1004
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:49,859
use it it's a discrete units of material

1005
00:42:57,950 --> 00:42:53,930
okay it by discrete you mean very small

1006
00:42:59,390 --> 00:42:57,960
both well I think it's a by discreet I

1007
00:43:01,880 --> 00:42:59,400
mean it's not connected to anything else

1008
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:01,890
okay right yeah so they said it's a

1009
00:43:07,450 --> 00:43:05,609
quantum break through in hair care what

1010
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:07,460
do they mean what do they mean there

1011
00:43:13,090 --> 00:43:11,330
because I have heard that not God what

1012
00:43:15,010 --> 00:43:13,100
yeah I couldn't really answer like that

1013
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:15,020
I don't think anyone can I think that's

1014
00:43:19,420 --> 00:43:16,850
exactly why they say it I probably

1015
00:43:21,370 --> 00:43:19,430
reference the quantum physics hmm and

1016
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:21,380
even they don't understand yeah but the

1017
00:43:24,970 --> 00:43:23,570
probability way it's probably more to do

1018
00:43:28,210 --> 00:43:24,980
with the success that they've had with

1019
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:28,220
quantum physics in understanding the

1020
00:43:32,350 --> 00:43:30,530
world around us and making quite large

1021
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:32,360
breakthroughs in science so I would

1022
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:35,090
argue that probably by quantum break

1023
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:36,290
through they're actually referring to

1024
00:43:41,470 --> 00:43:37,760
the type of breakthroughs that quantum

1025
00:43:47,230 --> 00:43:41,480
physics has had in the here in their

1026
00:43:49,450 --> 00:43:47,240
research okay thank you when people in

1027
00:43:51,130 --> 00:43:49,460
advertising or anywhere generally invoke

1028
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:51,140
the word quantum what do you think

1029
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:52,490
they're trying to get across what do you

1030
00:43:58,780 --> 00:43:56,000
think they mean something trendy

1031
00:44:02,410 --> 00:43:58,790
something it's got Authority it must be

1032
00:44:04,060 --> 00:44:02,420
really good it's it's a step up yeah I

1033
00:44:05,230 --> 00:44:04,070
go that's what they're trying to do what

1034
00:44:06,850 --> 00:44:05,240
do you think they're trying to save you

1035
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:06,860
and they invoke the word quantum as in a

1036
00:44:10,830 --> 00:44:08,510
great breakthrough in quantum

1037
00:44:14,530 --> 00:44:10,840
hairdressing for example

1038
00:44:18,220 --> 00:44:14,540
quasi-scientific background with latest

1039
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:18,230
research technology claiming expertise

1040
00:44:22,570 --> 00:44:20,930
that doesn't exist wow are you a

1041
00:44:25,690 --> 00:44:22,580
copywriter in your spare time that's

1042
00:44:27,370 --> 00:44:25,700
good that after that fits in well that's

1043
00:44:28,750 --> 00:44:27,380
a good one now what are you hearing your

1044
00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:28,760
brain when they go hey it's a quantum

1045
00:44:32,770 --> 00:44:31,310
leap my understanding is that that they

1046
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:32,780
think the quantum means something big

1047
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:35,510
betting on my understanding is that it

1048
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:37,610
actually is something not so big at all

1049
00:44:43,450 --> 00:44:41,930
yes and that's that's you know so they

1050
00:44:46,090 --> 00:44:43,460
say something is a quantum leap in this

1051
00:44:47,490 --> 00:44:46,100
thinking it's a it's a big big change or

1052
00:44:49,590 --> 00:44:47,500
a big improvement or

1053
00:44:51,090 --> 00:44:49,600
if you can dance or what everyone is put

1054
00:44:53,790 --> 00:44:51,100
into might be that they're trying to

1055
00:44:55,020 --> 00:44:53,800
promote I've heard michio kaku I think

1056
00:44:56,850 --> 00:44:55,030
your haiku his name is from the

1057
00:44:58,380 --> 00:44:56,860
University in New York this is whenever

1058
00:44:59,850 --> 00:44:58,390
people invoke the word quantum it

1059
00:45:01,440 --> 00:44:59,860
normally means that they have no idea

1060
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:01,450
what they're invoking I think you had to

1061
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:03,310
be pretty right and I've just used the

1062
00:45:06,450 --> 00:45:04,330
word quantum and I think that just

1063
00:45:08,370 --> 00:45:06,460
applies to move in an ad so that's okay

1064
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:08,380
you're making no claim you're making no

1065
00:45:15,450 --> 00:45:11,650
testable claims no no no testable claim

1066
00:45:16,890 --> 00:45:15,460
at all thank you look you gotta say if

1067
00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:16,900
you want if you want to know about

1068
00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:18,400
something you should ask someone who'd

1069
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:19,710
spend a bit of time at University

1070
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:22,090
looking at it and we've gotta register

1071
00:45:26,010 --> 00:45:24,250
rocket science here in Bryce how are you

1072
00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:26,020
in oh good evening may not I think

1073
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:27,910
you've got the scientists crazy here

1074
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:29,920
tonight to it looks good right yeah look

1075
00:45:34,290 --> 00:45:31,810
it's okay how's your hand there you hurt

1076
00:45:37,260 --> 00:45:34,300
your hand sir yes putting it repairing

1077
00:45:39,450 --> 00:45:37,270
my roof oh so something that scientists

1078
00:45:40,770 --> 00:45:39,460
usually do no no it was it was there an

1079
00:45:41,940 --> 00:45:40,780
issue with tetanus with that did they

1080
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:41,950
have to give you a shot after that and

1081
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:44,170
now I didn't worry about that I just got

1082
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:46,480
on with the job okay now you're talking

1083
00:45:49,980 --> 00:45:48,160
about quantum tonight I've been asking

1084
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:49,990
people hear what they think when they

1085
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:52,720
hear the word quantum invoked in just it

1086
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:54,640
usually to my journalist or in

1087
00:45:57,930 --> 00:45:56,050
advertising and that sort of thing I've

1088
00:45:59,430 --> 00:45:57,940
got a range of answers so what do you

1089
00:46:02,700 --> 00:45:59,440
think they should be saying when they

1090
00:46:05,970 --> 00:46:02,710
say we've got a quantum leap in hair

1091
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:05,980
care products or dash hounds or cats and

1092
00:46:11,010 --> 00:46:08,770
what what do they mean okay well when my

1093
00:46:14,190 --> 00:46:11,020
lawyer says to me I want to talk about

1094
00:46:17,300 --> 00:46:14,200
the quantum of my fees okay I get very

1095
00:46:20,420 --> 00:46:17,310
worried okay so it means something big

1096
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:20,430
but if the if someone says something's

1097
00:46:24,890 --> 00:46:21,930
our quantum leap they usually mean a big

1098
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:24,900
leap but actually a quantum leap in

1099
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:27,330
physics is rather tiny it's based on

1100
00:46:32,380 --> 00:46:29,010
Planck's constant which is about 10 to

1101
00:46:34,850 --> 00:46:32,390
the minus 34 which is unbelievably tiny

1102
00:46:37,790 --> 00:46:34,860
and as you know I'm a huge fan of the

1103
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:37,800
concept of Planck time which I think use

1104
00:46:40,970 --> 00:46:39,810
scientists just invented because you

1105
00:46:42,890 --> 00:46:40,980
couldn't figure out how the universe

1106
00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:42,900
came out so quickly because it had to go

1107
00:46:47,330 --> 00:46:44,940
faster than light so we thought Planck

1108
00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:47,340
time that'll get them yes in well that

1109
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:49,110
there might be something in that too yes

1110
00:46:55,070 --> 00:46:52,410
but this is something unmeasurable about

1111
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:55,080
events shorter than playing time yes so

1112
00:46:59,840 --> 00:46:57,450
that may be back in the days of the Big

1113
00:47:01,700 --> 00:46:59,850
Bang or the picoseconds of the Big Bang

1114
00:47:03,380 --> 00:47:01,710
that was what rained and so you're

1115
00:47:05,930 --> 00:47:03,390
literally talking to us about quantum

1116
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:05,940
tonight and but I I actually it's often

1117
00:47:10,730 --> 00:47:08,310
invoked spiritually do we mention Deepak

1118
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:10,740
Chopra earlier there because i can't

1119
00:47:14,780 --> 00:47:12,210
imagine that all these things going on

1120
00:47:17,660 --> 00:47:14,790
in an unusual way on the micro level

1121
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:17,670
can't occasionally influence something

1122
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:19,920
here on the macro level why can't that

1123
00:47:26,180 --> 00:47:24,090
happen well it can happen as we'll see

1124
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:26,190
tonight lots lots and lots of effects at

1125
00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:29,730
the macro level well at least at the at

1126
00:47:34,370 --> 00:47:31,710
least at the photons of light level

1127
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:34,380
which are visible to our eyes so we can

1128
00:47:37,370 --> 00:47:35,850
actually see the quantum effects in

1129
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:37,380
action but it's true that they're very

1130
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:39,570
small however the energy of a photon is

1131
00:47:44,090 --> 00:47:42,930
very small now could to most people

1132
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:44,100
probably heard about two photons

1133
00:47:48,530 --> 00:47:46,050
interfering as they go through a Jewess

1134
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:48,540
lead experiment or two electrons or two

1135
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:51,210
protons but could to sign us to sing

1136
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:52,530
whether they could perhaps get two

1137
00:47:58,960 --> 00:47:55,680
viruses to to interfere as they go

1138
00:48:01,850 --> 00:47:58,970
through the slit and maybe then two

1139
00:48:04,100 --> 00:48:01,860
bacteria maybe two fleas and maybe too

1140
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:04,110
answered maybe two people the problem is

1141
00:48:09,290 --> 00:48:07,410
that you get decoherence quantum effects

1142
00:48:10,940 --> 00:48:09,300
only occur when things are coherent when

1143
00:48:12,890 --> 00:48:10,950
they're all in the same frequency in the

1144
00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:12,900
same phase and once you get up to

1145
00:48:16,370 --> 00:48:14,280
something as big as a virus it's

1146
00:48:19,100 --> 00:48:16,380
impossible to keep them in phase because

1147
00:48:20,750 --> 00:48:19,110
there's too many atoms involved yes yes

1148
00:48:23,780 --> 00:48:20,760
that's right and the wavelength gets too

1149
00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:23,790
short and you can't specify their

1150
00:48:27,810 --> 00:48:25,710
position accurately enough so no one's

1151
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:27,820
observed anything

1152
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:30,160
bigger than elementary particles or

1153
00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:33,010
rather composite particles like nuclei I

1154
00:48:38,250 --> 00:48:36,280
believe Justin in a similar physics

1155
00:48:40,530 --> 00:48:38,260
question so since we're talking about

1156
00:48:42,690 --> 00:48:40,540
particles a lot of a light being being

1157
00:48:43,890 --> 00:48:42,700
aligned so so their vibrations are going

1158
00:48:45,930 --> 00:48:43,900
the same through the slit at the same

1159
00:48:48,930 --> 00:48:45,940
time is this any sort of hint at maybe

1160
00:48:51,420 --> 00:48:48,940
string theory maybe businesses that this

1161
00:48:53,970 --> 00:48:51,430
may be given string theory another leg

1162
00:48:57,870 --> 00:48:53,980
of the three stool to be proved string

1163
00:48:58,770 --> 00:48:57,880
theory okay there's a thought I just

1164
00:49:00,690 --> 00:48:58,780
thought we know it's all about

1165
00:49:03,300 --> 00:49:00,700
vibrations they're vibrating at the same

1166
00:49:05,580 --> 00:49:03,310
frequency so they can do it maybe if we

1167
00:49:07,020 --> 00:49:05,590
are vibrating on an even more micro

1168
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:07,030
level that there's something in that or

1169
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:09,520
am I just have my serve on well that's

1170
00:49:13,380 --> 00:49:11,290
interesting but I think that's at

1171
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:13,390
another level because a photon is an

1172
00:49:18,270 --> 00:49:15,970
elementary particle as far as we know

1173
00:49:21,420 --> 00:49:18,280
elementary meaning can't be subdivided

1174
00:49:23,340 --> 00:49:21,430
and all the characteristics of a photo

1175
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:23,350
on are quite clearly set down by physics

1176
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:27,690
as it is so string theory is not needed

1177
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:31,090
to define the photon but but however it

1178
00:49:34,380 --> 00:49:32,290
could well be that there's a deeper

1179
00:49:36,810 --> 00:49:34,390
level to these things and in that case

1180
00:49:39,420 --> 00:49:36,820
it could be strings or it could be super

1181
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:39,430
symmetry the several things because and

1182
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:42,130
we can't actually in any way think of

1183
00:49:46,890 --> 00:49:43,810
how it could possibly test string theory

1184
00:49:48,090 --> 00:49:46,900
in any current way the moment going yes

1185
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:48,100
it doesn't seem to make any predictions

1186
00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:51,130
that would show up in this world and as

1187
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:53,140
you know scientists works very much

1188
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:54,880
science works very much by predictions

1189
00:49:59,610 --> 00:49:56,770
personally the theory has to make it

1190
00:50:02,970 --> 00:49:59,620
make predictions and then they have to

1191
00:50:05,370 --> 00:50:02,980
be tested and and succeed or as Papa put

1192
00:50:08,070 --> 00:50:05,380
it it's the lack of failure that makes a

1193
00:50:11,670 --> 00:50:08,080
theory stronger so it has to be testable

1194
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:11,680
and falsifiable and then if its people

1195
00:50:15,090 --> 00:50:13,930
attempt to falsify it many times and

1196
00:50:17,790 --> 00:50:15,100
they fail to do so that always

1197
00:50:19,110 --> 00:50:17,800
strengthens the theory but so far string

1198
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:19,120
theory hasn't made any of those

1199
00:50:24,660 --> 00:50:22,450
predictions you've got your talk here

1200
00:50:26,130 --> 00:50:24,670
about quantum for skeptics in the pub

1201
00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:26,140
here what do you think is the one point

1202
00:50:30,030 --> 00:50:28,390
the one slide the one graphic that's

1203
00:50:31,300 --> 00:50:30,040
going to blow this room of people away

1204
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:31,310
they're going to be walking out

1205
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:34,010
you go walk in blue my tiny eight brain

1206
00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:36,290
because of what well I think they're

1207
00:50:39,780 --> 00:50:37,730
going to walk down the street after its

1208
00:50:43,780 --> 00:50:39,790
seeing quantum effects all around them

1209
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:43,790
wow you so you'll become the deepak

1210
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:47,810
chopra blurry hills not know I deal with

1211
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:49,370
the real world unfortunately there is a

1212
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:51,650
difference and if people want to study

1213
00:50:54,790 --> 00:50:53,210
up on this or maybe go to a good website

1214
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:54,800
that might have some sort of things that

1215
00:50:57,820 --> 00:50:55,850
you're going to talk about in your talk

1216
00:51:01,090 --> 00:50:57,830
any idea where people bun together oh

1217
00:51:02,650 --> 00:51:01,100
well Wikipedia is always good or they

1218
00:51:04,090 --> 00:51:02,660
can come along to one of my talks and

1219
00:51:06,070 --> 00:51:04,100
i'll be happy to entertain them for an

1220
00:51:08,590 --> 00:51:06,080
hour and what phrase should they google

1221
00:51:09,550 --> 00:51:08,600
and what what phrase should they Google

1222
00:51:13,260 --> 00:51:09,560
to find out what you're going to be

1223
00:51:15,820 --> 00:51:13,270
talking about here tonight well it's

1224
00:51:17,410 --> 00:51:15,830
quantum optics would be a good start and

1225
00:51:19,050 --> 00:51:17,420
the quantum world made visible is the

1226
00:51:21,100 --> 00:51:19,060
title of my talk because as I'll show

1227
00:51:22,570 --> 00:51:21,110
with us something as simple as a

1228
00:51:24,100 --> 00:51:22,580
diffraction grating you can see the

1229
00:51:26,860 --> 00:51:24,110
quantum characteristics of many

1230
00:51:29,830 --> 00:51:26,870
different light sources and and what's

1231
00:51:32,590 --> 00:51:29,840
more classical mechanics that's non

1232
00:51:34,060 --> 00:51:32,600
quantum is it a complete loss to explain

1233
00:51:36,610 --> 00:51:34,070
any of these sources that I'll

1234
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:36,620
demonstrate tonight that's coming from

1235
00:51:42,580 --> 00:51:40,010
man wearing a purple paisley shirt in

1236
00:51:44,020 --> 00:51:42,590
the classic 60s are so well done bro I'd

1237
00:52:00,539 --> 00:51:44,030
say that shirts a quantum leap in

1238
00:52:05,380 --> 00:52:03,130
did you see that UFO sighting that made

1239
00:52:07,089 --> 00:52:05,390
the news what did that latest study

1240
00:52:09,519 --> 00:52:07,099
about alternative treatments really say

1241
00:52:12,460 --> 00:52:09,529
is this photo making the rounds real or

1242
00:52:14,349 --> 00:52:12,470
hoax doubtful news is a unique website

1243
00:52:16,509 --> 00:52:14,359
featuring news about pseudoscience the

1244
00:52:18,210 --> 00:52:16,519
paranormal anomalies and questionable

1245
00:52:21,460 --> 00:52:18,220
claims framed with the skeptical view

1246
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:21,470
come visit doleful newscom every day for

1247
00:52:27,069 --> 00:52:23,930
news about cryptozoology conspiracies

1248
00:52:29,559 --> 00:52:27,079
shams scams and more follow us on

1249
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:29,569
twitter at doubtful news critical

1250
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:31,130
thinking is essential in assessing

1251
00:52:47,780 --> 00:52:33,410
today's news duffel news helps you

1252
00:52:52,170 --> 00:52:50,280
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1253
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:52,180
zone and thank you to Angie matki all

1254
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:53,770
the way over there in Atlanta Georgia

1255
00:52:59,970 --> 00:52:58,240
who ran from one room to another to do

1256
00:53:01,859 --> 00:52:59,980
that interview with me a little earlier

1257
00:53:05,070 --> 00:53:01,869
on and I'm sure right now she's running

1258
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:05,080
around having a great time at dragoncon

1259
00:53:09,089 --> 00:53:07,330
and yes I hope I can be back there next

1260
00:53:12,060 --> 00:53:09,099
year why not it's been a long time since

1261
00:53:14,099 --> 00:53:12,070
I've been there six years in fact that's

1262
00:53:16,589 --> 00:53:14,109
too long it's such it's such a lot of

1263
00:53:20,010 --> 00:53:16,599
fun thank you to Heidi and thank you to

1264
00:53:21,810 --> 00:53:20,020
a maenad of course for your reports this

1265
00:53:26,940 --> 00:53:21,820
week now here's something that might

1266
00:53:29,849 --> 00:53:26,950
interest are fans of Pegasus origami

1267
00:53:32,329 --> 00:53:29,859
Pegasus the flying pig a model I

1268
00:53:34,740 --> 00:53:32,339
invented for James Randi way back in

1269
00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:34,750
2007 goodness me little piggies almost

1270
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:37,510
10 years old well coming up in October

1271
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:42,010
on saturday and sunday the 29th and 30th

1272
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:45,520
of october folding australia 2016

1273
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:48,130
origami convention and their special

1274
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:51,130
guests will be a well-known folder from

1275
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:53,530
melbourne Stephen Casey but I'm

1276
00:53:57,810 --> 00:53:55,570
delighted to say I'll be there and my

1277
00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:57,820
friend Gary Clark we did a video

1278
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:00,160
together some years ago on origami a DVD

1279
00:54:06,540 --> 00:54:03,490
I'll be there to demonstrate how to fold

1280
00:54:08,820 --> 00:54:06,550
origami Pegasus and make lots of origami

1281
00:54:11,099 --> 00:54:08,830
for everybody I'll have copies of the

1282
00:54:12,839 --> 00:54:11,109
DVD for sale as well as my origami

1283
00:54:16,260 --> 00:54:12,849
jewelry and my friend Gary will be

1284
00:54:19,859 --> 00:54:16,270
demonstrating modular origami so if

1285
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:19,869
you're a fan of origami and skepticism

1286
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:22,240
and the flying pig why not check out

1287
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:24,730
folding Australia 2016 origami

1288
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:27,760
convention I can google that and I'll

1289
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:29,200
certainly put a link in the show notes

1290
00:54:35,099 --> 00:54:31,450
for this week's episode hope to see you

1291
00:54:37,740 --> 00:54:35,109
there and if you do drop by um say hello

1292
00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:37,750
and i will fold you an origami pig why

1293
00:54:43,410 --> 00:54:39,730
not and for those people who have been

1294
00:54:46,140 --> 00:54:43,420
writing in asking yes Henry Edward more

1295
00:54:48,690 --> 00:54:46,150
to find in fact they're lying in the in

1296
00:54:50,370 --> 00:54:48,700
a sunbeam right now where are the other

1297
00:54:52,530 --> 00:54:50,380
day on the other side of the office a

1298
00:54:54,859 --> 00:54:52,540
little window and crack of Sun comes in

1299
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:54,869
sunbeam comes in across the floor and of

1300
00:55:00,609 --> 00:54:58,130
course they live migrate to it

1301
00:55:03,339 --> 00:55:00,619
the Sun moves around all the earth moves

1302
00:55:07,180 --> 00:55:03,349
around you know what I mean the stream

1303
00:55:09,249 --> 00:55:07,190
of the beam of light moves so do they so

1304
00:55:11,499 --> 00:55:09,259
do they they're very smart little cats I

1305
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:11,509
think but they've yet to really develop

1306
00:55:17,529 --> 00:55:15,049
their meowing sometimes you'll hear

1307
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:17,539
little now from them but they've yet to

1308
00:55:23,259 --> 00:55:19,609
develop the really strong where's my

1309
00:55:25,210 --> 00:55:23,269
food meow meow I'm sure that's going and

1310
00:55:27,249 --> 00:55:25,220
just before I go don't forget the next

1311
00:55:30,430 --> 00:55:27,259
skeptics in the pub here in Sydney will

1312
00:55:31,809 --> 00:55:30,440
be a special skeptic zone live anyway

1313
00:55:34,029 --> 00:55:31,819
that's next Sydney skeptics in the pub

1314
00:55:37,499 --> 00:55:34,039
the sixth of October here in Sydney at

1315
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:37,509
the crown hotel more information ww

1316
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:40,490
skeptics calm today you but for this

1317
00:55:48,940 --> 00:55:42,410
week this is Richard Saunders signing

1318
00:55:50,529 --> 00:55:48,950
off from Sydney Australia you've been

1319
00:55:54,069 --> 00:55:50,539
listening to the skeptics own podcast

1320
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:54,079
because of our website at wwc a petting

1321
00:56:01,029 --> 00:55:57,200
zoo TV for contacts an archive of all

1322
00:56:03,339 --> 00:56:01,039
episodes since 2008 and our online store

1323
00:56:06,059 --> 00:56:03,349
please support the skeptic zone by

1324
00:56:09,069 --> 00:56:06,069
following us on twitter at skeptic zone

1325
00:56:12,130 --> 00:56:09,079
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1326
00:56:14,980 --> 00:56:12,140
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1327
00:56:18,460 --> 00:56:14,990
support by subscribing via paypal for as

1328
00:56:20,799 --> 00:56:18,470
little as 99 cents a week the skeptic

1329
00:56:22,509 --> 00:56:20,809
zone is an independent production the

1330
00:56:24,609 --> 00:56:22,519
views and opinions expressed on the

1331
00:56:27,269 --> 00:56:24,619
skeptic zone and not necessarily those

1332
00:56:30,930 --> 00:56:27,279
of Australian skeptically or any other